Curse

majoho · Apr 14, 2011, 01:11 PM // 13:11

Since everyone and their mother is posting their builds and quite often untested I would like to suggest we pick a few place that people have to try before asking for critique on their builds.

It's basically just to test the builds for blatant weaknesses and also to encourage people to actually try to improve on their builds before posting them.

If the mods think this is inappropriate they can ofc. just lock this.

Personally I would actually like a few more places to test my builds so in any case I'd like to know where other people test - the locations should be easy to get to and ofc testing should be in HM.

I'll start:

Location: Riven Earth, exit from Rata Sum.

Map:

Go to the location on the map, wait for the Raptor patrol to be close then make sure to aggro both the Raptor and Angorodon group at the same time.

This is an extreme example because many decent builds will fail this, mainly because the Angorodon are OP'ed but it's still a good test to spot glaring weaknesses.

jensyea · Apr 14, 2011, 02:03 PM // 14:03

Good topic.
If you really want to test your build properly, VQ Sacnoth Valley, it's not short or easy to get to, but it pretty much covers all bases. You get fire spikes in the burning forest and youl find out wether you dish out enough damage at the grawls. You'll see if you need more speed and how well your team interrupts. Just a very good test for your build, but it will take some time

.

Fierabras · Apr 14, 2011, 02:25 PM // 14:25

That's a nice area since the mob damage can't be reduced by armors...
Imo joko domain, not in wurm areas... For mass aggro and energy denial

Potestas · Apr 14, 2011, 02:26 PM // 14:26

Hi majoho,
in my case started this year with GW and after running must of the game (just last mission from EoTN to complete all campaigns in normal mode) I have found that http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/h...t10474776.html
have the best I have tried so far... my Necro plus the hero caster build works fine. The only problem is with heavy AOE fire damage. Maybe, cause none of my heroes and char have runes or anything else than standard gear.

Not sure if you are looking for a balanced build or want to test new ones but that was really helpful in my case.

Pugs Not Drugs · Apr 14, 2011, 02:39 PM // 14:39

I would say try and do Slaver's exile in Hard Mode because the Stone Summit there have a nice mix of anti caster and melee, and good defense and offense.

Only issues I see with that is
a) It depends on player skill as much as heroes due to the microing/pulling/balling needed in order to suceed.

b) Forgewright Hard Mode is probably the most difficult area in the game to do with only heroes, because of the lack of seven flags.

Lethal Primate · Apr 14, 2011, 03:02 PM // 15:02

+1 for slavers' HM, the groups of dwarfs are nicely balanced out in terms of most of the game mechanics (dmg, prot, heal, rupt etc.).
The City of Torc'ua NM might also be an option since the mobs are kinda balanced there and deal all sorts of dmg.

Daesu · Apr 14, 2011, 03:05 PM // 15:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by majoho

Go to the location on the map, wait for the Raptor patrol to be close then make sure to aggro both the Raptor and Angorodon group at the same time.

Different players would have different playing style, so you should specify with or without micro managing their heroes.

Some players are also more careful than others as they flag their heroes before any encounter and perform proper pulling, instead of aggroing two groups at once. This means they can be successful with a team build that is less defensive and more damage focused.

Aggroing a armor ignoring caster mob+melee attackers at the same time is not typical of most pve encounters if you play properly and would probably result in builds that are overly defensive for most pve.

The rest of the suggestions on this thread sound reasonable.

EDIT: I take that back. City has vocal minority and depends on lightbringer title (although most people should have maxed it by now) so it is biased against shout based teams. Most shout based teams would configure their build differently in that situation.

Arctica · Apr 14, 2011, 03:19 PM // 15:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lethal Primate

The City of Torc'ua NM might also be an option since the mobs are kinda balanced there and deal all sorts of dmg.

I second this. I usually go to the City to test either new team builds or tweaks made in already existing builds.

Captain Bulldozer · Apr 14, 2011, 03:20 PM // 15:20

It takes a bit more work, but one of the best testing grounds is Kryta during the WiK content (preferably HM, but even NM can be a challenge). If your teams can handle that stuff in HM with little to no trouble, you've got a good team.

OP's suggestion is ok too, but yeah the Angorodon's are perhaps a bit OPed, especially with all the life steal (depending on which prots you're using anyway).

Azazello · Apr 14, 2011, 03:21 PM // 15:21

Forgewright is not too bad if you're willing to spend the time pulling carefully and dropping aggro if the pull is bad. It's a good test, but for a quick and easy test of your builds survivability this seems good.

If you can do this pull and a sub 12 minute raisu palace your build is probably worth taking to other areas (like slavers HM) to test and develop it further. If you can't do one or the other it's probably not worth sharing with everyone unless you think the fun factor is high, there are original ideas there that someone else could develop, and/or it annihilates one particular area.

Most of the builds being posted are just bad versions of ideas that already exist, which seems like a bit of a waste of time.

Kojima · Apr 14, 2011, 03:41 PM // 15:41

Love the idea. And Rata Sum is one heck of a great place to test it indeed.

majoho · Apr 14, 2011, 03:50 PM // 15:50

Ok I think people are getting the wrong idea.

My point was to find some quick to get to encounters that would test your build, to encourage posters to actually do a little testing on their own before making a thread

I meant quick places to test if something specific was working - obviously doing end game areas and Slavers in HM defies the point of experimenting since that's typically where you would use good builds. If we were to enforce that you should be able to tun city or slavers not many people would post their teams and that's not my intention.

And as I said myself my test was a bit over the top since the dinos in that area will spike you like nothing else you will encounter + on top of that they have a stupid OP monster skill. (Twisting Jaws : Touch Skill. Steals 120 Health; inflicts a Deep Wound and Bleeding (10 seconds).)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azazello

Most of the builds being posted are just bad versions of ideas that already exist, which seems like a bit of a waste of time.

Exactly.

LifeInfusion · Apr 14, 2011, 04:22 PM // 16:22

My problem with this is survivability is a trade-off for speed. When you know that an area has very few healers, it's better to have 1 offhealer and 1 healer than 2 dedicated healers so you can steamroll faster.

In area like UW HM or DoA, you don't have this option.

As far as the topic goes: An area I find favors offensive builds is Borlis Pass HM bonus. It has hex removal.

FoxBat · Apr 14, 2011, 04:38 PM // 16:38

What I would rather see is threads grouped into archetypes, instead of "my personal build that's slightly different than the standard!" etc. More or less how PvX ideally operates. EG:

S/D/M
S/M/x
Ranged Phys
Mes Mercs

Alot of people seem to think their personal S/D/M or S/M/phys support deserves its own thread, and it doesn't. We don't need threads where slightly off-standard builds are gradually corrected to standard, that's just a circle jerk of theorycrafters instructing someone too lazy to do a little research.

This won't really happen without moderation intervention though, most thread starters are not guru vets, and as mentioned just couldn't be bothered to look up X nearly identical build thread.

majoho · Apr 14, 2011, 05:03 PM // 17:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by FoxBat

Alot of people seem to think their personal S/D/M or S/M/phys support deserves its own thread, and it doesn't. We don't need threads where slightly off-standard builds are gradually corrected to standard, that's just a circle jerk of theorycrafters instructing someone too lazy to do a little research.

Indeed, most threads evolve into the OP eventually changing his build to be pretty similar to the default builds

Quote:

This won't really happen without moderation intervention though, most thread starters are not guru vets, and as mentioned just couldn't be bothered to look up X nearly identical build thread.

And that was another point I tried to make, people should do some research check other threads, then test their build and only then post it to get opinions.

I think we should have a rule here that required people to make a little effort before making a thread, if they can't be bothered they could post in the general 7-hero thread.

Xiner · Apr 14, 2011, 06:00 PM // 18:00

I find this thread a really great idea! Actually I was waiting for somebody to say in a 'Is is a good build'-thread these are just variants of the meta's out there. :P
Like others said areas like Slavers give nearly all kinds of stuff. I don't know about Rata-Sum raptors etc. But those Raptors/Angorodons together usually caused some pretty pressure to me and the party. But what about parties with heavy prots/heals like the Shiverpeak area's in Tyria?

By the way, this might be a very stupid question: what are these S/D/M thingies? Does this involve something like Spiritway/Discordway/Mesway?

Spiritz · Apr 14, 2011, 06:27 PM // 18:27

Id say test some builds in nm somewhere - we have to remember at times nm and hm builds can differ a lot and often players want nm builds till they get hm ( eg rushing a campaign on a new chr ).
Bar that its a gd idea

ian1421 · Apr 14, 2011, 06:30 PM // 18:30

Great idea, but T-Temple HM with no coordinated pulling/agro imo is a harder test, enchant stripping and illusion 1 monk and imba or prot will totally roll raptors easily, you need something with more sources of pressure, soul explosions/roj's/heavy melee and AoE for example.

Edit:

Forgot to mention T-Temple is in the easiest campain, and comes with a mission timer, so ppl can compare.
My personal best doing this on my warrior was 17mins with 1 single death throughout and with 3 heroes not runed or equiped. I am sure anyone can beat this.

wilebill · Apr 14, 2011, 07:06 PM // 19:06

Rata Sum is the quickest and easiest test area. Also Sparkfly Swamp.

ian1421 · Apr 14, 2011, 07:36 PM // 19:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by wilebill

Rata Sum is the quickest and easiest test area. Also Sparkfly Swamp.

I'm not being funny, but its not even a test imo.